The unofficial online home for fans of the Kent State University Golden Flashes. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

There are several things happening to this team that is very disturbing. They show their talent for 1/2 a game and then it is like they do not care. 8 points and 5 turnovers from the point guard position is a disaster. Our good teams had 5 turnovers total per game. We started the second half with 5 straight turnovers after having a 9 point lead. You do not have to be a great player to not make mistakes. You do not even have to be smart. You do have to have DISCIPLINE. Discipline comes from coaching. I was disheartened to read JC's comment that he had no answers to this team. He said that if he had an answer, he would do it. He also said that we should be thankful that we are one of the 9 teams in position to win it all. Hell, we are KSU. We have not been in the middle of the pack for 6 years. Should we start now? I am beginning to think that JC has lost this team and he needs to look at himself in the mirror. I watched Akron play Toledo the other nite. It gripes me to no end to say that the zippers have more heart than our team. Maybe it is the end of time.

GFlash68 Wrote:Discipline comes from coaching. 

Unfortunately, Geno Ford is also responsible for the poor play from the guards. As a former point guard, you would think that he would be able to get better play from his guards.

Some may not be pleased with Jim Christian, but I'm not sure if Geno Ford could do much better as the head coach.

What say you?

nashvillegoldenflash Wrote:...but I'm not sure if Geno Ford could do much better as the head coach.

What say you?

During the 2001-2002 season, his only one there, Geno lead DIII Shawnee State to a record of 22-10 (.688). It was their first winning season since '95-96. Dustin, Geno's little brother and fellow OU guard, has lead a very mediocre DII Jackson High School to a school record 17 wins and three losses this year. He's been there just a couple of seasons. Papa Gene is I believe now 414-185 (.691) at DII Cambridge High School. That's pretty decent success IMO. Now, am I saying that DIII college and DII high school ball are the same as DI college ball, absolutely not! What I am saying is there is more basketball knowledge and leadership there than alot of coaches (ahem...) even dream about. All three are master motivators that can (and do) get their players to play above their abilities on a consistant basis.

Geno is an ASSISTANT coach. He is there to assist the head coach. It is the head coach who ultimately makes the decisions. It is the head coach who ultimately lets the team shoot too many threes. It is the head coach who ultimately lets the team play uninspired defense. It is the head coach who ultimately has to correct the undiciplined mistakes... The best head coach that's been there in the last three years is a certain tight end on his way back from Hawaii right now.

So whay say I?

Let's throw some facts out before we start criticizing the assistants. They could have a completely different approach to the game instead of the current court-full of 6'5"s who hoist 22 footers.

Come on guys flashfan is going to start calling us haters or in the "JC can't coach Camp" again. He and others would rather accept the mediocrity and think everything is going to be fine next year. If JC hasn't lost the team by now i'll sure he will. 2 straight games by JC calling out his players. I know some will call it motivation but i call it desperation and trying to point the blame and cover your own ******. It's great that their the leader will throw his team under the bus to make himself look better.

As for Geno i'll take him as a head coach any day, any place. He and his family are proven winners and class individuals. Whoever gets him as a head coach will be lucky and i hope that's us.

Quote:Posted: Dec 12 2004, 05:15 PM   GFlash68
Do not question JC. He did more coaching last night than I have ever seen from anybody. He had more to do with that victory than most people know. He is developing the youth in just the right way. He is playing everyone that he has. I would not be suprised to see Scott redshirted if Nate makes a full comeback in January. Scott is good but he could really benefit from the extra year of body development. Again, do not question the best coach in KSU history.

So, which is it?

KSU315- The Zips have room on their bandwagon. You've even got the colors. Go jump on.

Flashfan - I'm honest with my analysis of the Zips and you think i want to root for them? NEVER I started KSU in 1990 and have been to ~ 95% of all home games since. If you remember the 90-97 stretch it was brutal and i never want to go through that again. Am i critical of JC and the flashes. Heck ya because i'm not liking what i'm seeing out of this team and particulary JC. I'm still at all home games and listen (painfully to Needle) on the road games. So i will NOT jump off the bandwagon I'm just expressing extreme concern on where this program is at. I thought that was the point of a message board?

I haven't done the analysis but look at our opponents record for the W's and for the losses and i think you'll find our record is grossly padded with some poor wins. I wouldn't be surprised if we don't make it to the Gund this year.

GFlash68 Wrote:8 points and 5 turnovers from the point guard position is a disaster. 

Discipline comes from coaching. 

This is truly amazing. As an assistant coach and as a former guard, one of Geno's responsibilities is to work with the guards on the team and help develop their skills. But even though there is an excessive number of turnovers coming from our guards this year, some of you don't think Geno is even remotely responsible and would like to see him become head coach.

Don't get me wrong, I too like Geno Ford but can't help but wonder why our coaches aren't doing a better job coaching our players. I am sorry if you disagree but I have to say Geno is partially responsible.

As a member of the coaching staff, Geno should be accountable for the development of the players (particularly the guards) along with Jim Christian and the rest of the coaches.

Is there anyone who wants to promote our special teams coach to head coach in football?

Actually, these are good responses. Like me, all of us are Flash fans and I hope that most of us will stay on the bus. I will as I have for many many years. Keep up the spirited exchanges, and keep up the interest.

We see the same picture and disagree.

We can agree that the Flashes are struggling. When they've lost, it can be summarized by poor execution offensively, break downs defensively and general lack of discipline. When they've won, it was largely due to more or less 40 minutes of consistent intensity, everyone playing within themselves and balanced contribution. It is particularly frustrating because we know this team CAN play...the big win over Creighton, domination of Miami and roaring back at Cleveland State. When we know they can, it is maddening that they don't.

We disagree on the primary reason. Some of you seem to believe it all comes down to coaching. I won't say coaching has no role, but I don't see it as the primary reason.( I also wish J.C. would skip the press call outs. But he knows these guys better than I do.) IMO, the biggest reason we've seen the swings, lack of discipline and struggling for leadership is that FOUR of the FIVE guys on the court at the start of the game didn't start last year. THREE of them didn't even play. Basketball is akin to jazz. Split second decisons are required, reading the minds and body language is required, changing roles mid stream is required. Stamina is required...its a loooong season. It's a lot more than knowing the notes or the instrument, or in this case knowing the plays and the strategy. Execution comes from chemistry. I am not surprised this group of players can't jam the way we think they can this year. It sure would be nice if they did...but I am sruggling to name one team in any conference with over half of its starters and 75% of its eight man rotation not even in the games last year who played at their peak. Layer on that the fact that this is the one MAC team EVERY other program measures itself against and brings its best game. Our MAC brothers never sleep on this team.

For me, this program has earned a rebuilding year because I don't think all the tradition is suddenly vanished and we are back to "mediocre." Look at CMU. For the second straight year after winning two of three MAC championships they will struggle to win 5 MAC games. Look at how the current champ WMU is struggling after a strong start. I don't read any comments from fans of the three teams in the pack with us calling their teams "mediocre." They are just happy to be in the race. We are mad because we aren't leading it.
Wpn't repeat all the reason why I think next year will be better...but it will also be for several other teams. But we have the intagible of tradition on our side.

As for Akron, they certainly are better. They have talent to give us a run for the next several years. GOOD. Nothing makes a program better than competition. But they are not us.

I agree with GF68. This would be a boring place If we all agreed. Someone should save this thread the next time a newbie comes on here to call us "lemmings." Finally, respond to this struggle any way you'd like. But think of the guys we want in our fox hole....Shaw, Huffman, Mitchell, Thomas and Gates...now all fans like us...and how they are likely to respond right now. I'm with them.

FF,

Good point about the past stars.

I read a couple of weeks ago that Youngblood called Huffman for advice and talked to him extensively. The tradition is there. The successful players of the past have not abandoned this program. They hang around, they consult, etc. This all despite there being a turnover in coaching during their tenure. These guys care as much as the current players and the rest of the fans. The successful programs have player alumns who care and can provide history, we now do to.

I am spoiled by the GREAT success of the past few years and the fact that we have an outward manifestation of our pride and love of KSU. I am disappointed because I don't want it to end and be mediocre again. I hope that this is just a bump because of the player turnover this year.

Disagree as we may about the causes, we all wish the best for this program and its continued success. Go Flashes!

Another thing that makes it so difficult is that our past good team were built with over achievers. Really! They were a good to great team, but the individuals were intense all the time. They had to be. We actually thought at times that the team was actually that good naturally. No way.

Our present team appears to be made up of a group of under achievers. That is just an ugly thought. They may be as bad as they look but we do not want to believe it. We have seen individual ability for small periods of time. Maybe I hate under achieving because I are one.

Ok, here's my two cents:

1) The most frustrating thing about this team is its inconsistancy. Flashes of brilliant play coupled with play that makes the team look rec league. I blame the inconsistancy on:

a) DeAndre Haynes. He can be great; he can be terrible. If he weren't the point guard, I think we would all accept that he's a pretty good player that can occasionally carry the club (a la Jason Edwin). But because he is the point guard, when he goes in the dumpster, it's very obvious and very damaging. I don't think it's a matter of intensity/laziness/whatever, I think he's just inconsistant.

B) Kevin Warzynski/Jay Youngblood. This one I'll blame on learning to play at a higher level. Both have a lot of talent, but seem quite lost a lot of the time. I think both will play better at a more consistant level next year.

c) Nate Gerwig. Because he's hurt. A healthy Gerwig pushes Warzynski out of the paint where teams can't match up with him. A healthy Gerwig gives the Flashes a guy that will finish about 2/3s of the time in the paint. A healthy Gerwig takes a lot of defensive pressure off of Kevin Warzynski, which is his weakest point as a player. A healthy Gerwig means a lot of offensive rebounds off of lay-up misses. A major key to this team was going to be Gerwig, and I think we have to expect inconsistancy if he doesn't play much.

d) Team leadership. Last year's team had Bedford and Haut. Before that, Gates. Before that, Shaw, Mitchell and Huffman. Before that, Massey. Before that, Whorton. No guy with quite that mentality on this club, and it is an intangible that makes a difference.

2) This team isn't that much worse than the last two years, it's just showing up more because the whole MAC is better. I'll use Kenpom.com for ratings. He has Kent at #81 right now. Last year, #85. We may be annoyed that Kent is in the pack, but the pack is coming up to Kent's level; Kent isn't sinking to the pack's previous level.

3) I agree with GFlash68, we are so used to teams overachieving that having a team underachieve is a drastic disappointment. I would agrue that this team isn't even underachieving, we (as fans) are just spoiled on the overachieving.

4) I think this team will be a Top 50 club next year (knock on wood about Gerwig's health).

Great input bopol. I agree with just about every thing. The one thing that I question is about the rest of the MAC being better. I do not believe that WMU is as good as last year. Same for BUGS. This is not one of BSU's better teams. Same for Toledo. Same for NIu and EMU. Buffalo is good, Akron is much better and so is Ohio. Overall, I would say that this is an average year for the MAC. I may be wrong on this and this weekend may help guage the strengths. This is our worst team in 5 years.

For what it is worth, Sagarin ratings for MAC Clubs:

2003-4 2004-5
Western Michigan 37 76
Kent 87 75
Toledo 105 93
Miami 115 52
Buffalo 129 86
Ball St. 153 108
Akron 170 62
Marshall 177 218
BGSU 179 90
Ohio 210 107
EMU 212 172
NIU 233 144
CMU 280 223

What my eyes tell me (for teams I've seen enough to have an opinion)
* Kent. About the same as last year, maybe a little better, but more inconsistant.
* NIU. Much better than last year. Last year's team was Smallwood and Smith and nothing else. This year's club has developed nicely, with Petersen, McKinney and Paulsen playing much better. The ability to get to top-tier in the MAC will depend on the development of Hughes, Byrd and Pancratz.
* Akron. The St V-M boys are developing into fine college basketball players, and they look much better to me.

Everyone else I haven't seen enough to make a by-eye judgement, but clearly Miami and Ohio are much better, and WMU is a bit worse.

bopol Wrote:For what it is worth, Sagarin ratings for MAC Clubs:

                              2003-4            2004-5
Western Michigan    37                    76               
Kent                        87                    75
Toledo                    105                  93
Miami                      115                  52
Buffalo                    129                  86
Ball St.                    153                  108
Akron                      170                  62
Marshall                  177                  218
BGSU                      179                  90
Ohio                        210                  107
EMU                        212                  172
NIU                          233                  144
CMU                        280                  223

What my eyes tell me (for teams I've seen enough to have an opinion)
* Kent.  About the same as last year, maybe a little better, but more inconsistant.
* NIU.  Much better than last year.  Last year's team was Smallwood and Smith and nothing else.  This year's club has developed nicely, with Petersen, McKinney and Paulsen playing much better.  The ability to get to top-tier in the MAC will depend on the development of Hughes, Byrd and Pancratz.
* Akron.  The St V-M boys are developing into fine college basketball players, and they look much better to me.

Everyone else I haven't seen enough to make a by-eye judgement, but clearly Miami and Ohio are much better, and WMU is a bit worse.

This looked better when I edit it.

Again thanks bopol. Nice work and it supports your point. Maybe the MAC is stronger overall this year. Look forward to Buster buster. It would be nice to win them all.